Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

1965 Jeep J20 Gladiator Build

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Sanders
    replied
    Next up is tackling the substructure of the floor. My floor is rotten and since I have to rebuild it anyway, I may as well build a newer/better substructure that fits the JK frame and has plenty of meat for the seats with integrated shoulder belt to bolt to.

    It's not often you get 65 degree days during an Indiana December, so I took full advantage and got the pressure washer out. I focused primarily on the trans tunnel as that is about the only thing I'm keeping most of. The majority of that black is old tar undercoating (which is now all over my driveway!) I let it dry out overnight and then put it back in the garage until I could get back to it for demo.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-9498.jpg
Views:	243
Size:	4.18 MB
ID:	3061 Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-9501.jpg
Views:	227
Size:	2.84 MB
ID:	3062

    The plan is pretty straight forward; Replace the two main stamped floor channels that aligned with the contours of the J200 frame, with two new 2x3" tubes that align with the JK frame mounts. I am using the factory front and rear cross structures from the inner rocker to tie into the tubing but the centers were rotten so I'll replace them with 2x3" tube as well. The inner rockers needed repaired at the mid mount on each side so I used a thicker metal so it could tolerate a larger drain opening to prevent it from rotting again.

    I've left as much of the floor in there for now as I can for stability until I get both sides. I'll likely weld a temporary cross brace between the two channels so I can cut the rest of the floor (minus tunnel) and set it back on the frame to build out the pan structure around the t-case and seat brackets. I've got 1x2" tubing to build floor pan and seat supports off of the 2x3" channels.

    My Sawzall sh*t the bed as I was starting the other side so have to get back to it next time!

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-9635.jpg
Views:	229
Size:	2.92 MB
ID:	3063

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied
    Nothing too exciting or innovative here, but the last key to the puzzle of the driveline setting on it's own! Once my brother and sister helped me lift the cab off and roll it aside - I was able to get the ATLAS II mounted. I was dreading the thought of doing it from under the vehicle so while I had them over for the cab, I borrowed their backs for one more activity in lifting it into place! Amazing how much easier it is with help!

    Click image for larger version

Name:	Floor Channels.jpg
Views:	256
Size:	2.99 MB
ID:	3057

    I used the JK cross member and once I had the driveline set at the angle I wanted, I started my cardboard crafts again that Ian Johnson taught me. Made good headway one evening before I had to stop with the loud noises. I had it all set and just needed to cut a few more plates to finish weld but while patting myself on the back, I noticed the engine isolators were shifting hard to the rear. The barrel mounts are great for absorbing side to side and up and down, but don't offer much, if any, thrust resistance. They rely on the transmission mount for that. I failed to double check this as I'm used to basic pad mounts. SO with a little rework, I pushed the driveline forward and fixed my transmission mount.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	Transmission Mount Pieces.jpg
Views:	233
Size:	2.42 MB
ID:	3058

    The rear output yoke and rear axle yoke are within .5 degree of each other and the driveshaft appears that it'll be at about a 7 degree operating angle at ride height. In theory this means I won't need a CV on the rear. With the driveline tucked higher (protecting for tons?? ) and a bit offset toward passenger, I will have to open up the arch in the cross member that is under the cab to clear the driveshaft.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	Transmission Mount.jpg
Views:	239
Size:	2.93 MB
ID:	3059

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied
    The wheels eventually arrived so I was able to throw them on and finalize the cab location. They are from a late model Rubicon and I may end up running a 1" spacer but I'll save that for once I have the correct rubber. Here is a pic of them with suspension at full squat on bald 33's. I'm planning to run a 35x10.5 Kenda Kleever RT.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	Wheel Preview.jpg
Views:	252
Size:	3.15 MB
ID:	3054

    This also gives you a better idea of the current 116" wheelbase vs the trucks original 120" WB. My options are to either stretch the frame behind the cab which will impact my ability to run a JK stock tank, or shorten the bed in between the wheel wells and front bulkhead. I'm liking the idea of the 116" wheelbase for breakover etc and I have had the thought to split and add 2-3" at the center of the rear fenders anyway so I'm leaning that direction. I always felt the rear wheel arch of the J trucks looked smaller than the front fender openings.

    (you can also see my cheap trick for when I set the cab on the floor on it's back... furniture dollies from Menard's or Harbor Freight make small garage life easier!)

    Click image for larger version

Name:	Wheelbase.jpg
Views:	246
Size:	2.62 MB
ID:	3055


    Leave a comment:


  • Digger
    replied
    Good progress. It never goes as fast as we want it to.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied
    Final engine resting location (still shown with suspension fully compressed). I have marked the mounts for a bit more trimming once I have it all apart again for paint and final assembly.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-8727.jpg
Views:	287
Size:	2.43 MB
ID:	3037 Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-8726.jpg
Views:	270
Size:	2.35 MB
ID:	3038 Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-8728.jpg
Views:	272
Size:	2.69 MB
ID:	3039


    But for now, it's staying put for the next steps:

    - Mount front wheel and fender to permanently locate cab on frame and mark it. Borrowing the spare from my sister's Jeep as mine have been stuck at a Fastenal DC in GA for 12 days. Really wanted a roller by Thanksgiving
    - Remove cab and install transfer case
    - Finish transmission mount based on transfer case clocking
    - Begin floor deconstruction and reconstruction with new sub structure for JK frame, driver's side drop ATLAS, and Silverado seats... (the fun part!)

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied
    From there, it was test fit, tack, test fit again, score the frame where they should be, remove engine, drop suspension, finish weld the frame mounts on the bench, and finally weld them in place on the frame.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-8711.jpg
Views:	288
Size:	1.95 MB
ID:	3033

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-8722.jpg
Views:	280
Size:	2.21 MB
ID:	3034

    The 4.0L jeep engine has the mounts offset. They are on the same plane on top of the frame rail even though pic is a bit deceiving.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-8713.jpg
Views:	275
Size:	2.70 MB
ID:	3035 ​​

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied

    These frame side pieces are great. There is plenty of beef here and they go together really nicely. Again, massive time saver for the DIY garage folks.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	QD YJ Mount4.jpg
Views:	135
Size:	2.11 MB
ID:	3028

    Now that the engine was resting where I wanted to, I could make cardboard templates of the frame side kit pieces and mount them to the isolators to trim to fit. Then I transferred the templates back to the steel, marked, and cut. I tacked the plates together to make my cut-off wheel cuts nice and uniform. I like to keep my templates just incase my wife wants me to build her one too!

    Click image for larger version

Name:	QD YJ Mount8.jpg
Views:	125
Size:	2.62 MB
ID:	3029 Click image for larger version

Name:	QD YJ Mount7.jpg
Views:	122
Size:	2.23 MB
ID:	3030
    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-8708.jpg
Views:	129
Size:	2.12 MB
ID:	3031

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied
    Because I'm offsetting my engine toward the passenger frame rail about 1.5" from center, I needed to flip the isolator around to bring the stud in away from being on top of the frame rail. Now with that, I was robbing myself direct access to the bolt side of the mount by burying it a bit under the frame mount by reversing the isolator, I decided to make my life easier and weld a bolt through the top of the mount so I just have two nuts underneath and no wrench needed on top.

    **One thing to note when shopping for 4.0 Jeep isolators... look for the kind that has this oblong casting in the middle rather than just a round steel sleeve. This is the superior design and in my case, the DriveTech option from Napa (discontinuing) had two different mounts.. one with the oblong and one round. The round was definitely cheaper and wouldn't even fit the bolt through the center. My guy at Napa agreed to order a hand full from one of their older warehouses until we found the better style.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	QD YJ Mount5.jpg Views:	1 Size:	1.99 MB ID:	3023 Click image for larger version  Name:	QD YJ Mount6.jpg Views:	1 Size:	1.67 MB ID:	3024

    It's also important to remove your suspension springs and do all of this fitting with the suspension fully compressed. This will ensure that worst case scenario, your axle stays out of your oil pan and your control arms stay out of your engine mounts, air conditioner, starter etc.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG-8695.jpg Views:	1 Size:	2.48 MB ID:	3025 Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG-8696.jpg Views:	1 Size:	2.47 MB ID:	3026
    I know within a half inch where I want the cab on the frame so I left myself some room against the firewall. I’ve got plenty of room in front of the engine for fan/cooling package so burying it against the firewall isn’t critical for me.
    Last edited by Sanders; 11-23-2021, 04:09 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied
    Engine Mounts! Finally!

    I finally got some time last week (and parts) to go get my engine mounts knocked out. When I had parts, I didn't have time. When I had time, I was missing parts. When I had those parts, they were wrong.... you know how the story goes.

    Totally worth the wait though on these new style mounts from QuickDraw and given my basic fab tools at home, the precut pieces saved me a ton of time and noise. They are using tab and slot cut plates, 4.0L Jeep isolators, and a "trim it yourself" tab and slot frame perch set. I'm very curious to see how they behave but from what I've seen on OE applications, inline engines like barrel style isolators so I thought I'd give it a shot. They come with all of the hardware needed as well. You can order with or without the isolators.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	QD YJ Mount1.jpg
Views:	135
Size:	2.65 MB
ID:	3017

    The engine side mount is very self-explanatory. Put the two sides together with the center web, and then tab that assembly down into the engine plate. Once fully seated, tack and weld.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	QD YJ Mount2.jpg
Views:	127
Size:	1.92 MB
ID:	3018 Click image for larger version

Name:	QD YJ Mount3.jpg
Views:	126
Size:	2.03 MB
ID:	3019 Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-8690.jpg
Views:	130
Size:	2.58 MB
ID:	3021
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • DieselJeep
    replied
    I think that's all the reasons I will stay with the AX-15. Also I think I read somewhere that the AX-15 is capable of 360 ft-lbs in 4th gear, which might be where I'd use it when towing on the highway. I have seen some mentions of a beefier setup that can handle more torque, but in such a short wheelbase, I think it's not that useful.

    I do plan on building a YJ 1 ton and I will stretch it for very similar dimensions as a Toyota Tacoma, but I'll run something like an Allison transmission, 1 ton axles, suspension, steering, etc.

    I have thought about doing a manual shift in one of the 6 speed Autos for the wife's Tacoma. A guy that's doing another diesel build manually shifts his 6 speed auto and wife said she's fine with the non-clutch shifting. She doesn't mind a manual, but she doesn't like the type of gearing I prefer. She wants to get quickly from light to light, whereas I'm just hoping to make it light to light with what crazy thing I'm towing and trying to avoid the gas station and gas cans. She's also hard on clutches (she doesn't think that burning smell is a big deal) and I have to get her something she can't destroy. We really want a Hilux, but this is the US and though I think the Hilux engine is a really good one, I think I can use a R2.8 and pick my transmission and make a more capable rig, though not as reliable from the nature of custom builds.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied
    Having the 6L80E in my Rover I can tell you that the ratios are very nice in it. That being said, the transmission is HUGE and requires a lot of ATF and cooling. It was by far the most challenging part of my built. The overall length of the transmission plus the adapter to the t-case have made it very difficult to fit a good fan behind my cooling package. My rover is just over 100" wheelbase so not much room to play. It's also not the easiest to dial in and each application will take some tuning. I believe the tuning has come a long way from the factory in the past few years since we did the first 3 R2.8 6L80 installs but I wouldn't have what I have it it weren't for a buddy very proficient with HP tuners.. and it still has gremlins of bang shifting or free spinning in certain conditions. A customer sent me a new tune to try but I don't have a way to download it yet.

    If you were stretching the Jeep and going to 3/4 ton or tons, I would say sure. However, it would be much less of a tear up and should be less cost to go the tremec TR-4050 route and get you those good broad ratios. No cooler, plenty capable, still fits, use your pedals and clutch setup with it.. The tailhousing bolt pattern and spline count are the same as the AX15 so you have that going for you too (confirm with Chad or Silversport transmissions)

    The pro of either transmission is that they are VERY strong and our applications won't hurt them. But I am very much looking forward to rowing my own gears again, especially knowing that once I'm ready for my first shake down run, the transmission tune won't be the reason I have to cut it short

    Leave a comment:


  • DieselJeep
    replied
    I've been looking at the 6R80E, I think it's called (Quickdraw has a kit). Just running some basic numbers I think the QD adapter will move everything forward enough with a super short Atlas II (no speedometer gear) that it'll fit in the TJ.

    However, though I want that setup, I go back and forth if it's really worth it for my needs. I do want to slightly tune the R2.8, hence I'm afraid I'm pushing the AX-15 too hard (~360 ft-lbs) and the gear ratios from the 6R80 and 6L80 just look perfect for the R2.8. However I will also drift from simplicity going that route and it's additional weight that really isn't needed nor preferred.

    Also that price would go a long way to build the wife's Tacoma when her 4.0L bites the dust. I could go ahead and start getting the components together to put the R2.8 in place of the 4.0, which would be a perfect replacement for the 4.0L. Just gotta do research and see about integration vs standalone. 1997 Jeep Wrangler wiring vs 2014 Toyota Baja Tacoma wiring is a bit of a stretch for me, but we'll see.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied
    Get a hold of Steve Roberts at AA and tell him I said hello. He can help you think through your logic and tell you what's available and possible. Which transmission are you thinking?

    Leave a comment:


  • DieselJeep
    replied
    I'd love to have one of the 4 speed units (2.72 and 4.3), but for my gearing I plan to order the Atlas II 5:1 and I might see if they'll ever do a 6:1, which I think is discontinued. I'm really excited about the 2L option because I do some towing and I wonder how it would be towing some of my heavier stuff around. Looks like I can do some pretty significant towing starting in 2L and moving into to 2H, if it'll shift fast enough. Off road I've pulled around our camper that weighs 6k lbs, but I was in 4L (2.72:1), which was pretty easy.

    I've been thinking of swapping transmissions for a bit, so I'm hesitant to put in an order for an Atlas, because I don't know how difficult they are to reconfigure. I'm already at the point where a different transmission will likely run me $5k or more to get the one I prefer on paper.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied
    I’ve got a 3.8:1 case

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X