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1965 Jeep J20 Gladiator Build

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  • Sanders
    replied
    Originally posted by BrdHntn View Post
    Would the direct flow filter systems work for those of us with tighter space constraints? Would the dealers have some of the specs as far as sizing as I didn't see any on the bulletins I looked at?
    I just looked through their online PDF catalogs and found the ones that met the CFM requirement and then you can see the measurements from there: https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/literature/air

    Leave a comment:


  • BrdHntn
    replied
    Would the direct flow filter systems work for those of us with tighter space constraints? Would the dealers have some of the specs as far as sizing as I didn't see any on the bulletins I looked at?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied
    .......awaiting floor pans and rockers to get moving on my cab. Fingers crossed they arrive soon. The good news is that my wife is already sick of the truck bed and front clip in the driveway so she's encouraging me to hurry up. I am interpreting that as green light to spend money. I also explained to her what a new Gladiator costs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied
    Originally posted by 13diamonds View Post

    How does the air filter monitor work? Simply plug into CAN network? Im currently rebuilding my Defender and want to convert to an OptiAir setup also for proper filtration. Thanks for all you're sharing with the community.
    TBD - In looking at our tech papers on the ECM, I don't see this message support on the CM2220 or a pin for it so I may have to get creative. Worst case, I'll go old school on the filter minder because I don't mind the look of them anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • 13diamonds
    replied
    Originally posted by Sanders View Post
    I know it may seem backwards to some of you that my second post in a build thread for a complete frame swap/Cummins Repower was about an air filter, but the devil is in the details with any build.

    I've seen many guys do a great job and then once they are almost done, then they slap on whatever air filter they can get their hands on for the test drive thinking they'll make it better next time... and that never comes around. We all spend a lot of time and money on our rigs to make them more capable than they were ever imagined to be from the factory. Why cut corners on something that could kill the whole thing?

    Air filters come in all different shapes, sizes, filter capacities, flow rates etc - turbo diesels require very specific filter performance so I wanted to find an off-the-shelf Cummins filter that would work for this build that I knew was proven compatible and met all the Cummins engineering standards/tests. Turbos suck. The more dust you let it eat, the less efficient they'll become. Have a look at your turbo to see if there is a cone of dust building up on the nut for the compressor wheel. If so, you need a better intake setup ASAP! Turbos can suck a LOT of air. The filter has to be able to not only keep the finest dust out, but let the right about of air through so it can spool up and build boost.

    Working for Cummins, I am fortunate enough to have direct access to people much smarter than I. I talked to my friends over at Cummins Filtration (Fleetguard) to figure out if I could actually run the OptiAir 800 series with both elements for extra protection and they confirmed that I could. Once they helped me confirm my part numbers, it was go time!.

    Click image for larger version Name:	Filtration Christmas.jpg Views:	0 Size:	1.90 MB ID:	2795

    Parts showed up today and I did a quick Christmas morning so I could hold the parts up where I'm thinking of mounting it. My plan is to use the real estate previously occupied by the heater core and blower motor since that is all moving under the dash with the VintageAir setup (including AC!). Initial thought is to mount it to the firewall with a second option of having it run parallel to the engine and fender mounted (which would likely require carving into my inner fender a bit and potentially relocating battery)

    I can clock the inlet and what's shown is default. The inlet location to the filter is important too. It needs to have access to fresh, preferably dry, cool, air. Many factory applications pull from behind headlights or inner fenders, some through venting in the hoods with water separators. The worst thing you can do to an engine is feed it hot engine bay air. That is making your entire cooling package have to work overtime. Cool, dense air is what you want for the best all around performance.

    Click image for larger version Name:	Firewall2.jpg Views:	0 Size:	1.85 MB ID:	2796

    Here are the other accessories in addition to the primary filter and housing AH19261:

    1) Secondary Filter Element AF25961
    2) Air Filter Bracket 3918197S
    3) J1939 Air Filter Monitor SK15960

    These are all available through any Cummins dealer.

    Click image for larger version Name:	Bracket2.jpg Views:	0 Size:	1.98 MB ID:	2797Click image for larger version Name:	Secondary Filter.jpg Views:	0 Size:	2.10 MB ID:	2798Click image for larger version Name:	Digital Pressure Monitor.jpg Views:	0 Size:	2.47 MB ID:	2799
    How does the air filter monitor work? Simply plug into CAN network? Im currently rebuilding my Defender and want to convert to an OptiAir setup also for proper filtration. Thanks for all you're sharing with the community.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied
    Yes - I am quite happy to have all of the room I have under the hood of this one so I plan to use it!

    For my disco, I'm using the factory air box and filter which has driven me a bit nuts to not know the exact filter specs. Happy I'm pulling cool fender air and the box has a pre-cleaner, but then my plumbing wraps around from the front corner of the driver's side around behind the engine and into the turbo.

    I rushed that install because I was working between a broken leg recovery and leaving for Cummins Cruise. Once this truck is done, I'd really like to yank the engine back out of the Rover and do things the way I wish I would have the first time. Now QuickDraw has a flywheel housing for the GM transmissions that would save me a few inches to slide the engine back and make more room for a cleaner cooling fan install. My engine stays cool just fine but the trimmed taurus fan isn't the way I wanted to go. I've not made my AC lines for the Rover because I keep telling myself I'm going to pull the engine soon to clean it all up

    Leave a comment:


  • Digger
    replied
    Great informational post. I see lots of builds, gas and diesel, with basic cone filters under the hood.

    I'm only a little jealous you can fit that massive filter under the hood.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied
    I know it may seem backwards to some of you that my second post in a build thread for a complete frame swap/Cummins Repower was about an air filter, but the devil is in the details with any build.

    I've seen many guys do a great job and then once they are almost done, then they slap on whatever air filter they can get their hands on for the test drive thinking they'll make it better next time... and that never comes around. We all spend a lot of time and money on our rigs to make them more capable than they were ever imagined to be from the factory. Why cut corners on something that could kill the whole thing?

    Air filters come in all different shapes, sizes, filter capacities, flow rates etc - turbo diesels require very specific filter performance so I wanted to find an off-the-shelf Cummins filter that would work for this build that I knew was proven compatible and met all the Cummins engineering standards/tests. Turbos suck. The more dust you let it eat, the less efficient they'll become. Have a look at your turbo to see if there is a cone of dust building up on the nut for the compressor wheel. If so, you need a better intake setup ASAP! Turbos can suck a LOT of air. The filter has to be able to not only keep the finest dust out, but let the right about of air through so it can spool up and build boost.

    Working for Cummins, I am fortunate enough to have direct access to people much smarter than I. I talked to my friends over at Cummins Filtration (Fleetguard) to figure out if I could actually run the OptiAir 800 series with both elements for extra protection and they confirmed that I could. Once they helped me confirm my part numbers, it was go time!.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Filtration Christmas.jpg Views:	0 Size:	1.90 MB ID:	2795

    Parts showed up today and I did a quick Christmas morning so I could hold the parts up where I'm thinking of mounting it. My plan is to use the real estate previously occupied by the heater core and blower motor since that is all moving under the dash with the VintageAir setup (including AC!). Initial thought is to mount it to the firewall with a second option of having it run parallel to the engine and fender mounted (which would likely require carving into my inner fender a bit and potentially relocating battery)

    I can clock the inlet and what's shown is default. The inlet location to the filter is important too. It needs to have access to fresh, preferably dry, cool, air. Many factory applications pull from behind headlights or inner fenders, some through venting in the hoods with water separators. The worst thing you can do to an engine is feed it hot engine bay air. That is making your entire cooling package have to work overtime. Cool, dense air is what you want for the best all around performance.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Firewall2.jpg Views:	0 Size:	1.85 MB ID:	2796

    Here are the other accessories in addition to the primary filter and housing AH19261:

    1) Secondary Filter Element AF25961
    2) Air Filter Bracket 3918197S
    3) J1939 Air Filter Monitor SK15960

    These are all available through any Cummins dealer.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	Bracket2.jpg Views:	0 Size:	1.98 MB ID:	2797Click image for larger version  Name:	Secondary Filter.jpg Views:	0 Size:	2.10 MB ID:	2798Click image for larger version  Name:	Digital Pressure Monitor.jpg Views:	0 Size:	2.47 MB ID:	2799
    Last edited by Sanders; 04-30-2021, 07:07 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied
    If you rescue an old vehicle that’s been sitting for any amount of time, I recommend removing the blower motor and evicting any rodents who may have moved in! I plan on running a Vintage Air setup so this is all up for grabs. Hopefully this spot on the firewall will be home to my new air filter setup for the R2.8 (mentioned earlier in thread).

    It felt good to get the dash out and remove all of the hodgepodge wiring. I’m looking forward to making it nice and clean on the workbench. The plan is to retain the original cluster. I'll potentially hide the can display in the glove box and use the factory "AMP" warning lamp for my check engine and stop engine LED's.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Sanders; 04-26-2021, 06:53 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied
    Saturday I got the cab stripped down and old drip pan floor patches removed. I’ve got a decent amount of sheet metal work ahead of me with floors, rockers, and some other minor patching.

    You can see that nice original red on the firewall that was hiding behind the master cylinder.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied
    Originally posted by RePowerToy View Post
    Looks great! Are you painting the truck or keeping it patina?
    Thank you sir! So I need to do some sheet metal work on the cab to bring it back from Flintstone status. Floors, rockers, and some pin holes here and there and repairing screw holes on doors from various mirror it has had installed. I love the current patina but not sure how I would blend it all back in to the bed and front clip. I want the cab to be water/air tight as I plan on this thing accumulating some serious miles and will have AC etc.

    If I'm forced to paint the whole thing, I'm wondering what doing an implement paint job with no clear, then hitting it with 1000 grit to knock a few years off of it would do. I also plan to see a fair amount of dirt with this truck so I don't want a professional paint job. I've made that mistake before too where I made something too nice to wheel

    pics to come of the cab progress this weekend!

    Leave a comment:


  • RePowerToy
    replied
    Looks great! Are you painting the truck or keeping it patina?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied
    Originally posted by Digger View Post
    Great to see the progress. Those 230 were cool engines.
    Yes - It definitely has a unique muscular sound and I love the valve cover. Someone had put a 2-barrel Holley on this one which was a pleasant surprise when I showed the new owner. Call me spoiled with the R2.8's but one thing I won't miss is the hydrocarbon smell of the ol' gasser when I started it to move it around.

    Leave a comment:


  • Digger
    replied
    Great to see the progress. Those 230 were cool engines.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sanders
    replied
    The frame debate. Around 1975-76 the J trucks got a frame refresh. The front springs moved under the frame and grew from 2" to 2 1/2" wide for a smoother ride and more clearance for larger tires at full lock. This freed up space on the outside of the frame rail for the front cab mounts to move forward into a more optimal position and the design of all of the body mounts improved. There are MANY more spring options for the >75 J trucks as that suspension ran until end of production for the full size jeeps in 1991. At that point, the springs also moved under the axle in the front and they went away from a drum brake closed knuckle to disc brake open knuckle Dana 44.

    The other major improvement was the steering. You can see my old manual Ross steering box setup which caused for painful steering experience to say the least. It goes without saying, the more joints you have in a steering setup, the more slop potential you'll have. Combined with a manual steering box and an old rag joint at the column, it was a wild ride! The newer trucks have a 4-bolt Saginaw box and power steering. I weighed the fab time it would take to modify the original frame to mount a saginaw box which required building a new front cross member and either modifying the driver's side front spring hanger (or moving springs under, which at that point, just go with the other frame!). I decided since I was going to remove the body anyway, had access to a great deal on a good donor truck, and on wanted to move the rear springs under the frame on either chassis anyway - it made just as much sense to send the entire rolling chassis to someone who needs it for another Gladiator project. Also, this helps me manage the project in my small garage.

    So on the 'new' chassis, I'll chop the rear of the frame by ~12" to get it down to my 120" wheelbase, install my new front HP Dana 44 from the 1979 F250 on the flat springs sprung over (as it would be on the F250) and see how close the rear springs match the front ride height when I move them from outboard to under the frame. I don't want the truck to be super tall so the flatter springs are key here. I'll likely end up with a 35" tire. If it looks like it's going to be too tall with SOA, I'll rework the front end third member and spring perch to be sprung under. Based on some measuring between the two frames, I'm fairly confident I'll end up ok with the old springs sprung over. I am also planning on a shackle reversal on the front end during all of this. I did it on my Cummins-powered CJ7 and it made a huge difference in smoothing out the ride and kept me from bending springs when playing off road.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Sanders; 04-19-2021, 02:27 AM.

    Leave a comment:

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